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Egalitarian Christian Alliance » General » Blog Recommendations (Moderators: Dawn Wilson, KR Wordgazer, Larry S, Don, Marg) » Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?

Author Topic: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?  (Read 4280 times)

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Offline Beloved Disciple

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Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« on: April 08, 2009, 09:20:40 AM »
This question is posted in the comments on the CBE blog (click here):

QUOTE:
In all the biblical-gender issues there is only one I can’t get past that I find definitive. Jesus did not from his disciples choose any women to be part of the twelve. (A related issue is why the God of all choice chose to be born a male.) I have heard it said Jesus had to conform to the male dominated ancient world view. Yet in NO other case did he pander to the prevailing view but went out of his way to destroy their erroneous, wicked concepts. On this one issue he would slavishly adhere to the current prejudice? You have my email, I would certainly love a reply. ENDQUOTE
"Dear children, keep yourselves from idols." 
1 John 5:21

Offline Mara

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #1 on: April 08, 2009, 09:29:46 AM »
I get so tired of this one.

Jesus also did not chose a single Gentile out of all the world among His twelve. But you sure don't see that stopping any gentile men from going to Bible College to be a preacher.

I'm thinking people who come up with these things need to figure out how to look at things from more that one (gender) perspective and start looking at everything involved.
Look down from the summit of Amana, From the summit of Senir and Hermon, From the dens of lions, From the mountains of leopards. Song 4:8c
Who is this who looks down like the dawn, as beautiful as the full moon, As pure as the sun, As awesome as an army with banners? Song 6:10
May the name of the God of Jacob set you securely on high, Ps 20:1b

Offline lectio

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #2 on: April 08, 2009, 09:37:51 AM »
I completely agree.  There were three major people groupings to the Jews during this time:

slave or free
Jew or Greek
male or female.

The modern historians, in citing the 12 male disciples, are forgetting the OTHER two distinctives that, if the choosing of the 12 is indicative of who is allowed to be in leadership, also must apply: only Jews and only free-borns. 

How about what we DO know for certain, straight from Scripture:  the 12 disciples stood for the 12 Hebrew tribes.  All else is conjecture.

In other words, it was an Israel thing, not a Gentile thing.  So no fair *selectively* applying it to areas (such as "proving who is allowed to be in leadership") where it really doesn't fit. 

Offline Don

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #3 on: April 08, 2009, 10:02:23 AM »

Mat 19:28  Jesus said to them, "Truly, I say to you, in the new world, when the Son of Man will sit on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel.

Luk 22:30  that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.
 
Rev 21:12  It had a great, high wall, with twelve gates, and at the gates twelve angels, and on the gates the names of the twelve tribes of the sons of Israel were inscribed--
Rev 21:13  on the east three gates, on the north three gates, on the south three gates, and on the west three gates.
Rev 21:14  And the wall of the city had twelve foundations, and on them were the twelve names of the twelve apostles of the Lamb.

One can see from these verses that the 12 apostles map to the 12 tribes founded by the 12 patriarchs.

Another aspect is that a leader needs to be thoroughly taught and men were taught Torah, while women were not as much by a long shot.  The ministry of Jesus was about 3.5 years, not long enough to teach a woman to be a leader but Junia eventually became an apostle.
My translation of Eph 5:21-22 ... mutually submitting in the fear of Messiah; wives (mutually submitting) to your husbands as to the Lord.

Offline JLP

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #4 on: April 08, 2009, 12:46:29 PM »
Please you guys, post your responses over there at the cbe blog.  I would welcome them and they may help the man who asked.  Thanks!  :thumbsup:

Offline Larry S

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #5 on: April 08, 2009, 01:25:48 PM »
One can see from these verses that the 12 apostles map to the 12 tribes founded by the 12 patriarchs.

Complete agreement. And people like Wright/Fee point out that Jesus beomes illustrative of Israel - or Israel personified.

Its wooden surface reading to note the 12 were male and conclude gender distinctions is the point that Jesus is teaching. Following that logic we must all embrace patriarchalism (which some unfortunately do). But then why stop there - might as well embrace slavery and other 1st century cultural norms.

Offline ruudvermeij

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #6 on: April 08, 2009, 08:30:19 PM »
Note that one of the twelve was Judas. When he was not suitable any longer (a death betrayer), the did some juggling with dices (or their time equivalence) and came up with someone, who is never ever mentioned again in the Bible...

I think this uncertainty is not without importance...

Offline TL

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2009, 06:18:41 AM »
It's also of note that one of the most prolific apostles was not one of the original 12.  God is able to do things outside of our 'boxes'.  :)
"Man is a being capable of subduing his emotions and impulses; he can rationalize his behavior. He arranges his wishes into a scale, he chooses; in short, he acts. What distinguishes man from beasts is precisely that he adjusts his behavior deliberately." Ludwig von Mises

Offline Dawn Wilson

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #8 on: April 13, 2009, 10:38:32 AM »
As I was pondering the question asked concerning 12 male disciples the Lord brought several things to my heart.

The first is that there were both male and female disciples of Jesus and the twelve were chosen out of the midst of His disciples and named as His apostles.  I think the fact that the word disciple is usually seen as portraying the male gender has caused women and their contribution to the ministry of Jesus to be overlooked.

The other thing the Lord brought to my heart as I considered the 12 male apostles question was the fact that only ONE tribe - the Levites - could serve in the house of God(2 Chr 29:11).  In Jesus' choosing of 12 apostles who represented the 12 tribes of Israel I saw God showing a new day manifested in Christ - all twelve tribes through Jesus able to freely serve in God's house.  No longer would only one tribe have access to God's service but in Christ all would have access to serving Him.

I saw in the 12 apostles God showing a new way established through Jesus.  I saw God showing forth Jesus as the high priest in a new temple made up of living stones and with a priesthood of all believers.  I saw a new and living way being exampled before Israel and established through the death and resurrection of Jesus.


 
Pastor Dawn Wilson
Mighty Warrior Church  Athens, Alabama

Author:  Women, Get in the Army of God

Dawn Wilson Ministries
www.dawnwilsonministries.org

Offline Mara

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Re: Why did Jesus choose 12 male disciples?
« Reply #9 on: April 14, 2009, 02:01:01 AM »
'nother good point Dawn.

Also Jesus wasn't a Levite which also breaks the "Levite only reply" history of the priesthood and opens the door to the priesthood of the believer.

Thanks. Gotta go. 'nother busy day!
Look down from the summit of Amana, From the summit of Senir and Hermon, From the dens of lions, From the mountains of leopards. Song 4:8c
Who is this who looks down like the dawn, as beautiful as the full moon, As pure as the sun, As awesome as an army with banners? Song 6:10
May the name of the God of Jacob set you securely on high, Ps 20:1b

 


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