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Egalitarian Christian Alliance » General » Biblical Equality Discussion (Moderators: TL, JLP, Dawn Wilson, ruudvermeij, KR Wordgazer, Larry S, Don, Larhanya, Marg) » Prayer for being "submissive'

Author Topic: Prayer for being "submissive'  (Read 1693 times)

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Offline mizirma

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Prayer for being "submissive'
« on: June 28, 2007, 06:38:08 AM »
Last night we went to a prayer meeting at church, 5 others were there besides us. We asked for prayer for getting work and for all the pain we were having. Well enough. One of the women decided for pray for our marriage and wouldn't you know she decided to pray that I be submissive to my husband. I didn't say anything about it but Paul (hubby) knew this would irk me. I don't feel this should be said. Husbands and wives should be submissive to one another. What would be appropriate to do in that situation? :-/

Offline huldahsheir

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #1 on: June 28, 2007, 08:45:11 AM »
You can't force people to pray for you the way you wish to be prayed for. It's a pity, but no one has that much control over another person.

However, being the kind of person that I am, I would probably pray for her, the next time you are given a chance to do so publicly, that her husband would submit to her and they would have the kind of good, Bible-based marriage that Paul taught about in Eph 5:21. Since she didn't ask if she could pray for you the way she did, I don't see why you should not pray for her the way you wish. If the whole group was particularly oriented to pray for wifely submission in couple prayers, I'd be apt to be the one praying for husbandly submission when I was praying. *Someone* needs to balance out the submission prayers!

Offline JLP

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #2 on: June 30, 2007, 02:11:51 AM »
I would take her aside privately sometime and tell her nicely how you felt.  We Christians tend not to share our feelings with each other.  I think it would help her to know your feelings.  

I remember once sitting in an Codependents Anonymous meeting.  A Christian woman was sharing with the group how everytime she and her husband had a disagreement, he kept saying to her "Wives submit."  As a result, over time she had grown to the point that she wanted to divorce him.  I have always hoped that she her feelings about his behavior with him because this kind of information could have helped him know what he was doing that hurt her.  Perhaps he would have changed his behavior.

This woman needs to know that it hurt you when she prayed that only you would be submissive.  There are other women out there who are also hurt by this type of one sided prayer.  If you share your feelings with her it may change how she prays for other couples that ask for prayer.

Offline JLP

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #3 on: June 30, 2007, 02:14:05 AM »
I left a word out of my previous post.

I said:

I have always hoped that she her feelings about his behavior with him because this kind of information could have helped him know what he was doing that hurt her.

I should have said:

I have always hoped that she SHARED her feelings about his behavior with him because this kind of information could have helped him know what he was doing that hurt her.

Offline Conteuse

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2008, 06:50:49 AM »
I would have taken her aside and asked her to pray instead that you and your husband would have unity, and would both follow and obey God's will together.

Even hierarchicalists can't object to a prayer for marital unity and obeying God's will! :)
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Terri

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #5 on: March 21, 2008, 03:17:12 AM »
This reminds me of the sermon that my pastor preached on the beatitudes Matt. 5.  "Blessed are the meek"  I was into his teaching and it was really great.  But then he took us into 1 Peter 3:1 -- Wives be in subjection to your own husbands; that, if any obey not the word, they also may without the word be won by the conversation of the wives. Before this though he made the statement that "some of you are not going to like what I am going to say."  It is never the scripture that I have any problems  with but the way it is applied or misapplied to only one sex.  The scripture in 1 Peter 3:1 is never qualifed with any boundries on this husband that is disobedient to the word.........so the believeing wife does not know just exactly what she will have to endure to see her husband won to Christ.  Of course women are allowed to participate in  the sufferings of Christ but they are not allowed any of the authority or power that was also Christs, that belongs to men/husbands alone.

Verse 1 deals with the unbelieving husband.  Verse 4 deals with the believing husband.

I would like to assume that my church is comprised of believing husbands so why do we hear more about verse 1 instead of verse 4?  After verse 4 in 1 Peter 3 we have a litany of: be of one mind, have compassion, love as brethern, be pitiful, be courteous, no evil for evil, no railing for railing, but instead bless, no speaking evil, no guile, do good, seek peace.

Women are continually being addressed at the expense of men........."they also need to hear Gods words and keep them."   That includes submissiveness/meekness.

Offline Don

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2008, 03:55:36 AM »
If the person does not know you, I would talk to him/her afterwards.  I would agree with what she prayed, but ask her to also pray the dual, that the husband be submissive to his wife.  She may not even be aware of this.
My translation of Eph 5:21-22 ... mutually submitting in the fear of Messiah; wives (mutually submitting) to your husbands as to the Lord.

Online Larry S

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2008, 09:21:20 AM »
i don't know how i would repsond to a situation like the one described in the opening thread (if someone would be praying for me to be a better leader, or more of a covering or something similar).

most of my immediate thoughts about a response are not at all peaceful! I'd probably say something quite agressive and not want to subject myself to the setting again. it sounds like mizirma did the right thing by biting her tongue and not saying anything. I've noted that assertive women are often misunderstood. i envy people who have a calm temperment and can handle situations like that - i can't - i end up saying things that are too agressive and end up being misunderstood.

the scenario described in the little prayer group sounds like a lateral (sideways) type of a prayer - rather than than one directed to God.

regarding preaching from the 1 Peter passage, i rescently heard a radio preacher preaching on this text talk about how a woman may have to go through her own crucifixcon in obedience to the Bible and hubby. He never defined exactly what he meant, but it sent chills up my spine.

Offline mrsflib

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2008, 10:49:22 AM »
Quote
Last night we went to a prayer meeting at church, 5 others were there besides us. We asked for prayer for getting work and for all the pain we were having. Well enough. One of the women decided for pray for our marriage and wouldn't you know she decided to pray that I be submissive to my husband. I didn't say anything about it but Paul (hubby) knew this would irk me. I don't feel this should be said. Husbands and wives should be submissive to one another. What would be appropriate to do in that situation? :-/


Ask the Holy Spirit to lead you and guide you and give you a heart of wisdom and love for this women.  If we are sure in our own convictions, we'll be more ready to allow others their's.  God knows the motive of this women's heart.  I'd like to give her the benefit of the doubt.  If the Spirit leads you to speak graciously to her of your convictions, then by all means feel free to do so.  There are no prescribed answers for specific situations, only general guidelines that the Spirit brings to bear on our specific situations.

Blessings,
robin
"God formed us for His pleasure, and so formed us that we, as well as He, can, in divine communion, enjoy the sweet and mysterious mingling of kindred personalities." Tozer, In Pursuit of God.

Offline Conteuse

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2008, 01:27:49 PM »
Quote
...i rescently heard a radio preacher preaching on this text talk about how a woman may have to go through her own crucifixcon in obedience to the Bible and hubby. He never defined exactly what he meant...

Oh, so what Jesus did already isn't enough?  ::)

Strange... I thought he was crucified once for all, for all time. So if what he did isn't enough, what's that mean for the women? And why don't men have to go through their own crucifixion in obedience to the Bible?

Sounds as if it might have been one of those off-the-cuff remarks that sounds spiritual initially, but if you actually think about it, it turns out to be false and misleading.  Like "God helps those who help themselves." Oh, really? Since when?  ;D
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Terri

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #10 on: March 24, 2008, 02:51:08 AM »
People that believe (only) female submission to male authority is essential to a healthy marriage are most often very SINCERE and truly believe that the vitality of a church, or a marriage depends upon the willingness of the women to always surrender, but these SINCERE people are SINCERELY WRONG.  But please don't misunderstand me when I say this.  Submission is for all not just for the few. Alot of men and women are conditioned to believe that submission is a female virtue instead of a spiritual virtue, and way of life. The attitude of submission is incumbant on all who would be followers of Jesus (male and female).  The fact that it is made madatory (a critical facet of her salvation) for women and optional(causes no tension and not taught as critical ) for men creates even more havoc and distortions in male and female realtionships.  

The fact that you went to be prayed  for  about work (priority) was concluded with a prayer for (your) unilateral submission to your husband is quite telling and typical.......been there.   If you know this person that was praying for you well enough, take a direct approach with scripture.  Jesus taught his disciples in the beatitudes (Matt. 5) about all the characteristics that should be present in a follower of Jesus.  Gal. 5 gives us a list of the fruit of the believer.  Jesus was a submitter.......He Submitted to his parents as a child,  He submitted to the father (he done only those things that pleased the Father),  he submitted to Peter (washing his feet) ,  He made himself subject/submitted unto death...........and on.   So when we submit we imitate/follow in Christs footsteps.  But always remember a wifes submission to her husband does not negate his submission to her.  A husband and wife relationship is organic, it grows and matures.  Just because the scripture uses submission in relation to the wife in ephesians does not negate that fact that she should also love her husband.  Likewise, with the husband,  he is asked to love sacrificially........how can anyone disallow that you can love sacrificially/self-sacrifice without submitting.

Anyway, if this person that your dealing with is a hard-headed hardcore hierachlist/patriarch be cordial and pray for them and let them be. But, If that person has accepted the teaching of unilateral submission (and alot do) but are open to discussion you might have a chance of shining some light.  

But all things(even rebuke) must be done in love and respect.

Egalite

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #11 on: March 24, 2008, 08:13:33 PM »
I agree with everything that has been said, but I did want to add something. Before gently telling her what you'd prefer, make sure to tell her how blessed you feel that she chose to pray for you. I know that hearing someone pray for you to be submissive isn't the most flattering thing in the world, but she probably had her heart in the right place.  :)

Offline TL

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Re: Prayer for being "submissive'
« Reply #12 on: April 03, 2008, 07:27:00 PM »
Let us know how this is going Conteuse..

"Man is a being capable of subduing his emotions and impulses; he can rationalize his behavior. He arranges his wishes into a scale, he chooses; in short, he acts. What distinguishes man from beasts is precisely that he adjusts his behavior deliberately." Ludwig von Mises

 


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