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Egalitarian Christian Alliance » General » Biblical Equality Discussion (Moderators: TL, JLP, Dawn Wilson, ruudvermeij, KR Wordgazer, Larry S, Don, Larhanya, Marg) » How do complementarians define complementarianism?

Author Topic: How do complementarians define complementarianism?  (Read 837 times)

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Retha

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How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« on: January 07, 2013, 11:57:28 PM »
In my most recent blog post, I handled a Kassian definition of complementarianism:
Quote
Essentially, a complementarian is a person who believes that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about Jesus. That’s the bottom-line meaning of the word. Complementarians believe that males were designed to shine the spotlight on Christ’s relationship to the church (and the LORD God’s relationship to Christ) in a way that females cannot, and that females were designed to shine the spotlight on the Church’s relationship to Christ (and Christ’s relationship to the LORD God) in a way that males cannot. Who we are as male and female is ultimately not about us. It’s about testifying to the story of Jesus. We do not get to dictate what manhood and womanhood are all about. Our Creator does. That’s the basis of complementarianism.

Is there any other definitions by comps themselves that I can discuss?
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 03:25:14 AM by Retha »

Offline HadassahSukkot

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #1 on: January 08, 2013, 02:27:28 AM »
There are some out there..

There are a few quotes on Wikipedia that lead directly to Comp sites that have more. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complementarian#Christianity

One quote from there is from the SBC Convention in 2000:
"The husband and wife are of equal worth before God, since both are created in God's image. The marriage relationship models the way God relates to his people. A husband is to love his wife as Christ loved the church. He has the God-given responsibility to provide for, to protect, and to lead his family. A wife is to submit herself graciously to the servant leadership of her husband even as the church willingly submits to the headship of Christ. She, being in the image of God as is her husband and thus equal to him, has the God-given responsibility to respect her husband and to serve as his helper in managing the household and nurturing the next generation.

— Article XVIII. The Family. Baptist Faith and Message 2000"
« Last Edit: January 08, 2013, 02:28:33 AM by HadassahSukkot »
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Online Don

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #2 on: January 08, 2013, 02:43:36 AM »
Note that this is (yet again) some half-truths.  A husband IS to love his wife as Christ loves the church, but so is a wife to her husband.  A wife is to submit to her husband, but so is a husband to his wife.
My translation of Eph 5:21-22 ... mutually submitting in the fear of Messiah; wives (mutually submitting) to your husbands as to the Lord.

Offline Greg

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #3 on: January 08, 2013, 03:04:36 AM »
Note that this is (yet again) some half-truths.  A husband IS to love his wife as Christ loves the church, but so is a wife to her husband.  A wife is to submit to her husband, but so is a husband to his wife.

There were a lot of half truths in what Retha posted too. In fact, when I first read Retha's post I thought it was a woefully inadequate definition with little I could disagree with. I thought Retha must have gotten an obscure definition- until I read that of HadassahSukkot. It's appparently more common than I thought.

Quote from: Retha
Essentially, a complementarian is a person who believes that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about Jesus.

I believe that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about God. That's why I believe in two-parent homes and in women in ministry.

I think that until you get to the "man on top" part, you have stated reasons for Complementarianism, but you haven't defined it.




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Retha

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #4 on: January 08, 2013, 03:29:34 AM »

Quote from: Retha
Essentially, a complementarian is a person who believes that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about Jesus.

I believe that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about God. That's why I believe in two-parent homes and in women in ministry.

I like your quote. I think I will favorably use it it on my blog soon.

Retha

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #5 on: January 08, 2013, 03:56:41 AM »
Don, the irony of these half truths from the Baptist faith and message is also that they claim the Bible calls women to nurturing the next generation and men to provision.

Ironically, the Bible has AFAIK 2 verses on providing for your family. 1 Tim 5:8 is completely gender neutral in the Greek, and thus cannot defend a male provision role.
1 Tim 5:16 calls women to be providers. If you want to make a Biblical case for provision as a gender role, it is much more convincing to call it a female task.

As for nurturing children, the Bible say: Eph 6:4  And, fathers/ parents, provoke not your children to wrath: but bring them up in the nurture and admonition of the Lord.

The Greek word translated parents or fathers there, when singular, means father and not mother, but seemingly could - or could not - speak of people of both sexes in the plural. That is the only text containing the word nurture.

Yet, completely contrary to the Bible, they make provision a male gender role and nurturing children a female role. The opposite could be defended from the Bible much more easily! Which prove that complementarians claim to follow the Bible while following their traditions.

Offline Greg

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #6 on: January 08, 2013, 03:58:48 AM »

Quote from: Retha
Essentially, a complementarian is a person who believes that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about Jesus.

I believe that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about God. That's why I believe in two-parent homes and in women in ministry.

I like your quote. I think I will favorably use it it on my blog soon.

Great!

I'm working on a corrollary thought. Everyone I know tends to agree that women are more spiritual than men. I wonder if that's because women are taught by both genders, but men tend to only be taught by men? It ought to be food for thought.
Wisdom is proved right by her deeds.

Offline HadassahSukkot

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #7 on: January 08, 2013, 04:02:45 AM »
That is certainly thought provoking
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Online Don

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #8 on: January 08, 2013, 04:26:16 AM »
Right, if you UNTWIST what the comps are claiming, they claim they have the DUTY to ignore women speaking in some cases.  This means they can easily have a blind spot in this area. 

I am white, if I claim that God tells me to never listen to a black person teaching in church, I could easily have a blind spot about a lot of things that relate to blacks and/or church.
My translation of Eph 5:21-22 ... mutually submitting in the fear of Messiah; wives (mutually submitting) to your husbands as to the Lord.

Offline KR Wordgazer

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #9 on: January 08, 2013, 12:41:30 PM »

Great!

I'm working on a corrollary thought. Everyone I know tends to agree that women are more spiritual than men. I wonder if that's because women are taught by both genders, but men tend to only be taught by men? It ought to be food for thought.

I don't think that women are naturally more spiritual than men. I think the way women are raised encourages them to develop their spirituality, while the way men are raised tends not to.  I think spiritual behavior (reading the Bible, praying, seeking solitude) tends to be viewed as more of a feminine thing, and thus viewed with suspicion when a boy focuses on it.

I also think that Christianity by its very nature attracts those with less power in society, which still includes women even in the US.
It's a sad sort of manhood that feels diminished by a woman simply being herself.

My blog: Wordgazer's Words

Offline Greg

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #10 on: January 08, 2013, 04:49:19 PM »

Great!

I'm working on a corrollary thought. Everyone I know tends to agree that women are more spiritual than men. I wonder if that's because women are taught by both genders, but men tend to only be taught by men? It ought to be food for thought.

I don't think that women are naturally more spiritual than men. I think the way women are raised encourages them to develop their spirituality, while the way men are raised tends not to.  I think spiritual behavior (reading the Bible, praying, seeking solitude) tends to be viewed as more of a feminine thing, and thus viewed with suspicion when a boy focuses on it.

I also think that Christianity by its very nature attracts those with less power in society, which still includes women even in the US.

Many great points, probably more valid than my hypothesis. But maybe there is some truth in mine as well.
Wisdom is proved right by her deeds.

Offline Deborah

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #11 on: January 08, 2013, 07:50:09 PM »

Quote from: Retha
Essentially, a complementarian is a person who believes that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about Jesus.

I believe that God created male and female to reflect complementary truths about God. That's why I believe in two-parent homes and in women in ministry.

I like your quote. I think I will favorably use it it on my blog soon.

+1
And I smiled to think God's greatness flowed around our incompleteness, / Round our restlessness, His rest. --Elizabeth Barrett Browning

"In a futile attempt to erase our past, we deprive the community of our healing gift. If we conceal our wounds out of fear and shame, our inner darkness can neither be illuminated nor become a light for others.” - Brennan Manning, Abba's Child

princesaelenaorgana

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #12 on: January 09, 2013, 05:14:57 AM »
Note that this is (yet again) some half-truths.  A husband IS to love his wife as Christ loves the church, but so is a wife to her husband.  A wife is to submit to her husband, but so is a husband to his wife.
Don't comps teach men don't have emotions? So how can a husband love without emotions?

Offline Greg

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #13 on: January 09, 2013, 06:12:39 AM »
Note that this is (yet again) some half-truths.  A husband IS to love his wife as Christ loves the church, but so is a wife to her husband.  A wife is to submit to her husband, but so is a husband to his wife.
Don't comps teach men don't have emotions? So how can a husband love without emotions?

No, I don't think anybody teaches that to my knowledge. That would be a really weird teaching, and easily disproven by the Bible.
Wisdom is proved right by her deeds.

Online Don

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Re: How do complementarians define complementarianism?
« Reply #14 on: January 09, 2013, 06:21:40 AM »
But there are some emotions are are commonly classified as "weak" and even "effeminate" and those are ones to stay away from.
My translation of Eph 5:21-22 ... mutually submitting in the fear of Messiah; wives (mutually submitting) to your husbands as to the Lord.

 


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