[linjha]

I know this is an old article and Piper has taken time off since to work on his marriage and I sincerely hope things are better (he hasn't removed the article) but does this strike you as odd?

http://www.desiringgodDOTorg/resource-library/taste-see-articles/is-pastor-john-in-love-with-his-wife

Piper lists 4 reasons why we should think that he still loves his wife and they are all about.....JOHN.

1. John doesn't like an empty house. He misses Noel's presence in the kitchen, living room and bedroom when she isn't there.
2. John wants company when he goes to the Country Buffet and someone to play Scrabble with.
3. John wants someone to have sex with.
4. John wants someone who will admire him.

I mean, okay, my husband is out of town right now and I miss him. I like going out to eat with him and we have been known to play Scrabble. I like having sex with him. And the fact that he admires those thing in me that are admirable is great.

But if I were to write an article telling the world why I love my husband, I would  point out how kind he is, the fact that his greatest desire is to follow Christ, that he enlarges my world with his actions and his insights, that together we are better than we are on our own, etc etc. And I expect he would do the same if he were to write an article about loving me.

Of course, I realize not everyone has a spouse about which they can say positive things. Sometimes we do love people not because they are loveable but because we are commanded to love, just as Christ loves. But in such cases, I think it is even more important that we recognize the fact that love isn't just about - or even primarily about - what the other person does for us, but the things we *want for* the other person.

If I couldn't find anything positive to say about my husband, as a person, I think I would just keep quiet and not write an article about how handy it is to have him around so he can fulfill my  wants - then call that love.

Sorry to mention Piper - I don't really want to discuss Piper so much as what is love, especially in an egal marriage.

[diamondnell]

Sorry to mention Piper - I don't really want to discuss Piper so much as what is love, especially in an egal marriage.

I wish I had personal experience of an egal marriage to draw on.

As an egal married to a comp, what comes to mind is that love is walking toward God with a fellow sinner. Encouraging them when you can, walking beside them when you can. But ultimately recognizing that their journey belongs to them and God... and treasuring them from a distance when necessary.

[Don]

I think there is one answer to the question and that is serving your spouse.

[Elaine]

My initial impression is that it sounds as though he is trying to convince himself that he still loves his wife. 

And I agree with linjaha and Don.  It seems his main problem is that he's placed himself at the center for the "love" to revolve around.

[Deborah]

Wow, that's totally "me" centered, which is not the core of love.  I think love sees and hopes for the best and seeks the other's good in prayer and service, listening and cherishing the privilege of knowing another person.

[Crooked Bird]

To be fair, though, I wonder if there's a little confusion here between "SIGNS that I'm in love with my spouse" and "WHY I love my spouse".

I'm not a fan of John Piper but I didn't think it was terrible. I think that as a description of WHY he loved her it would be terrible, but I think what he's really saying is "Are we still in love, are we still attracted to each other? How can I know? Well, here is a sign from my end of things: I still honestly have a lot of desire to be with her--her specifically--in a variety of ways." His last point wasn't about wanting "someone to admire him"--it was about the fact that he cared more what she thought of him than what anybody else thought. I thought that was kind of his point. That no one else could substitute.

He should probably have included a list from her point of view too--detailing *her* desire to also be with *him*. But as a list from his point of view... it's a little lacking in enthusiasm, but it's not horrible.

[TL]

That is really fair and gracious thinking, Crooked.     

[linjha]

Well, I'm sure I was in a negative mood when I wrote that post, but I am still glad my husband would describe things differently.

[HisBlood2012]

I think that selfishness is one of the side affects of a belief system that says she is here to serve me. I rule over her, and she has to do what I say. In short, it's all about me. In reality, how could a belief system like that, do anything different than to create a selfish person?

[Marg]

I read the article.  I don't know why someone of John Piper's stature would want to keep this post on his site.  It is very self-centered.

My thoughts on love:

If we love someone we will do what is in our power to make them happy, we will care for their well being, encourage them in their pursuits, we will be considerate of their needs, personalities, tastes and frailties.  Love also means calling out someone when they are behaving badly or doing something stupid or destructive. 

Ultimately, love is unselfishly and patiently preferring and honoring someone above yourself.

So ... to me ... proofs of love are happily serving, caring, encouraging and accomodating your spouse.  Piper's article, however, is all about his needs and wants.

[dallasapple]

I agree on the surface if it was "the reasons I love my spouse" ...um..I wouldnt want to be his wife and the "object' of his love so to speak..I saw this one guy one time DESPERATE to win his wife back and he wrote her a "love letter" and I about fell out of my chair..everyone else was telling him it was great and I was cringing and thinking NO DUDE dont give her that! It was completely and 100% about what SHE would be missing out on if she follwed through on her plans to divorce.. ..IOW what a GREAT husband HE is..Like "I love how when you first wake up and your hair is all messed up and your face is all squinty and wrinkled from sleep I still think you are beauttiful"..I love how when we go to the beach ..I'm there to rub lotion on the spots you cant reach..I love how when you are sad or down ..I comfort you in my arms...I love how when you need some time away for yourself..I take the kids for the after noon...I love how somtimes I just think of you for no reason when Im out and I will buy you flowers  to just to say "i was thinking of you:....etc...

Everyone else but one lady ..saw that as "romantic"..Im like dude..why dont you just write..dear Sally..Im the best husband in the world..I cant imagine you ever finding anyone else as great as me..I love me so much and you should too.. 

Anway if the above was about "do I love my spouse still"..I could see finding reasons/situations you know you would desperately miss them..Like if you coud imagine yourself without them..would you feel RELIEF? Thats not good..So if you could imagine yourself very unhappy without THEM(not just anyone but THEM in particular) then i guess that list might not be so "selfish"..Because it can come to pass...someone would RATHER be ALONE LOL>>>than with their spouse having sex with them..or playing scrabble with them..or going out to eat with them..that can happen and if it does then THATS when you are in trouble..

But otherwise if it ws a list of "why" he loves HER then no ..thats not flattering one bit..its more like 'what are you good for"..or 'in what useful ways do I keep you around"..

Dallas

[dallasapple]

Also I wouldnt say that its alltogether "selfish" for loving my husband (in PART)for the things he provides me(or needs he fullfills) out of love..but  I would see that more as being grateful..or I would HOPE those things are recieved with gratitude..it doesnt mean thats all there is to it...I mean don't we love Christ for what He did for us?Doesnt Christ fullfill a need in us?

I think if you look at it from the angle that your spouse is BLESSING you with gifts and that you are grateful for them its not "selfish" ..anymore than its selfish to be grateful that this day God has provided me with another day of life and for the simple things but vital things like food to eat and my health and the health of my chidlren etc...

Maybe this man didnt word it properly..OR he could  be selfish and self centered..but just in GENERAL I dont thinks its selfish to appreciate your spouse for any needs you have that they fill..

Also if it comes down to a point where you are asking your self whats the "purpose of marriage" there is bound to be items in their purposes that are for your own fullfilment..your own desires and goals ..INCLUDING our desire which most of us HAVE  and thats to give love to someone..all of us have love to GIVE and we most of us desperately want somone to recieve that love and value us for it..including sacrifices ..thats if you look at it in the face is really a need of yours..if you are like many who have a desire to fullfill someone elses needs..to be important to them..there is self gratification in that..

Dallas

[TL]

Maybe this man didnt word it properly..OR he could  be selfish and self centered..but just in GENERAL I dont thinks its selfish to appreciate your spouse for any needs you have that they fill..

Also if it comes down to a point where you are asking your self whats the "purpose of marriage" there is bound to be items in their purposes that are for your own fullfilment..your own desires and goals ..INCLUDING our desire which most of us HAVE  and thats to give love to someone..all of us have love to GIVE and we most of us desperately want somone to recieve that love and value us for it..including sacrifices ..thats if you look at it in the face is really a need of yours..if you are like many who have a desire to fullfill someone elses needs..to be important to them..there is self gratification in that..

I like how you said this d.apple.  Someone who wants to do for you what you wish someone would certainly is a blessing in any area of life.