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Egalitarian Christian Alliance » General » Ministry Reviews (Moderators: TL, JLP, Dawn Wilson, Don, Marg) » Paul Washer on Genesis 1

Author Topic: Paul Washer on Genesis 1  (Read 3181 times)

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Offline Lin

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Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« on: August 04, 2009, 09:42:55 AM »
I am becoming more and more disappointed in Paul Washer and his teaching on gender. He used to focus on the Gospel mainly but I have noticed that over time he has become more and more involved in teaching on gender roles.

In this passage he makes a huge mistake of interpretation that is causing me to question his credibility in other areas. The error is so obvious that I am amazed he will get by with it. I guess celebrity brings advantages that folks will question you less and less.

In this sermon http://www.sermonaudio.com/sermoninfo.asp?SID=83091247171 he makes many errors but the worst is he teaches that Genesis 1 is speaking only to the male in taking Dominion over the earth. That 'males' were created to do God's work on earth. And he makes this point by using the term 'male'. How can he be so ignorant of scripture?

He also speaks on male headship and says if you do not agree with it, you are not biblical.

He also tells the story of when God was going to kill Moses in  Exodus 4:24-26

 24 At a lodging place on the way, the LORD met {Moses} [a] and was about to kill him. 25 But Zipporah took a flint knife, cut off her son's foreskin and touched {Moses'} feet with it. "Surely you are a bridegroom of blood to me," she said. 26 So the LORD let him alone. (At that time she said "bridegroom of blood," referring to circumcision.)

Washer makes the point that "Moses" eventually took care of this...completely ignoring the fact it was Zipporah who did it! What is it with these guys they cannot even give credit where it is due because a woman was involved?

Offline Don

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #1 on: August 04, 2009, 10:19:27 AM »
Headship is not even in the Bible, so anyone who uses the word is going beyond the Bible.
My translation of Eph 5:21-22 ... mutually submitting in the fear of Messiah; wives (mutually submitting) to your husbands as to the Lord.

Offline TL

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #2 on: August 04, 2009, 12:21:43 PM »
I suspect that the more one steps away from Scripture by adding into it things not inherent, then the more tendency there will be to ignore Scripture in places.
"Man is a being capable of subduing his emotions and impulses; he can rationalize his behavior. He arranges his wishes into a scale, he chooses; in short, he acts. What distinguishes man from beasts is precisely that he adjusts his behavior deliberately." Ludwig von Mises

Offline JLP

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #3 on: August 04, 2009, 04:46:16 PM »
Yes, the more people step away from scripture, the more they ignore while claiming to be supporting it.

I wonder if Paul Washer is being put under financial pressure to press the headship issue. 

Offline Dawn Wilson

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #4 on: August 04, 2009, 05:54:31 PM »
Quote: "He also speaks on male headship and says if you do not agree with it, you are not biblical."

I HATE it when pastors and Christian speakers use this kind of strong arm tactics - in effect saying, "you MUST agree with every word out of my mouth in order to be Biblically correct."  

These type of statements are used to control people through the fear of error.  Most Christians have a desire to be Biblically sound - thus these kind of statements are used to instill a fear of error -- and in this fear they don't question what they are told - to question is to be not Biblically sound -- thus they become like a herd of sheep being led blindly to slaughter because this fear keeps them from thinking for themselves.

These kind of strong arm tactics have instilled a fear of error all throughout the body of Christ.   I believe it is this fear of error we often face in those to whom we minister truth about Biblical equality.  The fear of error has been so deeply ingrained they are unable to search out the meaning of words in their original languages of Hebrew and Greek -- this fear causes them to be very uncomfortable when we do so.  

I've ministered to way too many who are sincerely afraid to take a peek past the plain language (as they term it) of the scripture.

I've ministered to way too many who are truly convinced that to dig into scripture on their own only leads to error.  

They truly have a mind set of fear which says, "Error warning, error warning, Will Robinson, don't dig, don't dig."  "Error warning, error warning, Will Robinson, don't search out for yourself"  "Error warning, Error Warning, Will Robinson"  I can see the robots arms from the old TV show "Lost in Space" flailing around as he warns Will Robinson of danger - an excellent example of what happens in the minds of those who have been instilled with the fear of being led into error if they study and seek out the meaning of scripture on their own.

The atheists often make fun of Christians because of the "mind control" they see - we get offended and all huffy at such statements --  failing to see the truth --- statements like the one made by Paul Washer are a form of mind control because they instill fear in those who hear.

Yes, I HATE these type of statements because I have found them to be a huge hindrance to our presentation of Biblical equality.   Fear of error is a form of control which keeps many bond to official church doctrine.

Dawn

« Last Edit: August 04, 2009, 05:55:21 PM by Dawn Wilson Ministries »
Pastor Dawn Wilson
Mighty Warrior Church  Athens, Alabama

Author:  Women, Get in the Army of God

Dawn Wilson Ministries
www.dawnwilsonministries.org

Terri

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #5 on: August 05, 2009, 02:07:19 AM »
I am being rejected now because I have chose to base my interpretations of passages on the Hebrew and Greek instead of the English.  I'm no scholar, just a simple housewife but I can read, think and reason.  When passages seem contradictory to me (esp. dealing with women) I have found that I can go to my Interlinear and do a word study and the issue is resolved.  I am being bullied and berated from the pulpit now, and have been told that people who study original languages only study for arguments sake and usually backslide.

It can get really rough. 

Offline TL

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #6 on: August 05, 2009, 04:13:43 AM »
WOW! 

What church do you go to Terri?

It is incredibly sad and disheartening to see this attitude come from church leaders.  And very frustrating for those on the receiving end of it.  So sorry that you are going through this.
"Man is a being capable of subduing his emotions and impulses; he can rationalize his behavior. He arranges his wishes into a scale, he chooses; in short, he acts. What distinguishes man from beasts is precisely that he adjusts his behavior deliberately." Ludwig von Mises

Offline Dawn Wilson

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #7 on: August 05, 2009, 07:58:42 AM »
Quote:  "told that people who study original languages only study for arguments sake and usually backslide"

Wow, I guess this means every seminary student and Bible scholar is in serious danger of backsliding then   :mad2:

Terri,  keep standing firm in the knowledge you glean from your study and research -- the kind of attack you are enduring is used because they know they can't prove you wrong -  they come against you in this strong arm attack in order to back you down and shut you up.  Stand strong, Terri, in the truth of God's word.  It will never let you down.

Dawn
Pastor Dawn Wilson
Mighty Warrior Church  Athens, Alabama

Author:  Women, Get in the Army of God

Dawn Wilson Ministries
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Offline JLP

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #8 on: August 05, 2009, 09:41:57 AM »
Terri - whoever said that to you must have felt incredibily threatened by what you told him/her/them.

Offline Larhanya

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #9 on: August 06, 2009, 07:41:36 AM »
My Greek TA in first year said that he always brings his Greek NT to church, but he puts a book cover on it so that no one can see what he's reading.  He said it's because he didn't want to threaten anyone (i.e. "Look at me, I'm the super-smart Bible scholar").  Maybe it's good protection from being accused of back-sliding, though!

My Greek NT is one of my favourite "objects" in this world.  I have let my Greek erode *slaps hand* but I feel so privileged to have access to the Bible in a close-to-original form.

------
But regarding the OP, I am equally amazed at this interpretation of Genesis 1.  I've been digging into John Paul II's "Theology of the Body" and even he is pretty adamant that in Genesis 1, dominion is given to "man," male AND female.  "Man" is only made in the image of God when "he" is male and female.
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Offline Jack Meyers

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #10 on: August 06, 2009, 08:21:37 AM »
Just wait. Someday I am going to chronicle all of these horrible complementarian teachings into one volume.

I think the best way to beat comps is to simply bring all of the things they actually say out into the open and let them speak for themselves.
ClobberBlog ~ Mormonism † Evangelical Christianity † Dialogue † Interfaith Marriage

Offline JLP

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #11 on: August 06, 2009, 08:56:46 AM »
Oh Jack, please do so!  People are being the wrong information on how to understand what the Bible says about women, and this would be so helpful.

Offline Lin

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #12 on: August 06, 2009, 12:29:08 PM »
They truly have a mind set of fear which says, "Error warning, error warning, Will Robinson, don't dig, don't dig."  "Error warning, error warning, Will Robinson, don't search out for yourself"  "Error warning, Error Warning, Will Robinson"  I can see the robots arms from the old TV show "Lost in Space" flailing around as he warns Will Robinson of danger - an excellent example of what happens in the minds of those who have been instilled with the fear of being led into error if they study and seek out the meaning of scripture on their own.

Dawn, this happened to me recently with a very good friend. We were discussing several passages and I looked up the Greek in several of them to get a better idea of the interpretation. She was upset and said I was trying to make her think she could not 'trust the bible' as it is written. I was pretty stunned and asked if her pastor ever explained Greek words to get a better idea of the meaning. Somehow that is ok if he does it.

I am finding this thinking is more and more ingrained. As if disagreeing with the interpretation is a sin. When, in fact, the Holy Spirit leads us to check many things on our own. We are blessed to live in a time with so many resources. I think some pastors are trying to make people feel guilty if they do this. For one thing, it might mean that people will test everything they teach. Which they should but some do not like it. But in the end, this only limits spiritual growth in the Body.

What stunned me about Washers message is that he clarified Gen 1 with his own interpretation. We are to ignore 'male and female in his own image' and believe that only MALES were given dominion over the earth.

Washer used to stick with the basic Gospel which is so needed today. But he has been back in the States long enough to fall for the gender distinction roles as our biggest problem in Christendom rhetoric.

 He makes the same old point that IF men were doing what they were supposed to be doing as Christians, this teaching would not be a problem for women.

But the truth is that if these men were doing what they were supposed to be doing as Christians, they would not be seeking preeminance but serving others as better than themselves. They would never even mention authority and dominion because they would be pursuing service and humility.

Offline Jack Meyers

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #13 on: August 06, 2009, 06:38:33 PM »
What stunned me about Washers message is that he clarified Gen 1 with his own interpretation. We are to ignore 'male and female in his own image' and believe that only MALES were given dominion over the earth.

Which is especially idiotic because the concept of being made in the image of God has everything to do with succession and dominion. After Genesis 1:26-27, the first mention of the word "image" (Hebrew צַלְמ) in the Bible is Genesis 5:3:

When Adam had lived one hundred thirty years, he became the father of a son in his likeness, according to his image, and named him Seth. (NRSV)

Why was Seth described as the image of Adam, and not Abel or Cain or any of Adam's other children? (Since he was 130 years old when he had Seth, I can only assume Adam had plenty of other children before Seth.)

It's because Seth was his successor, the one who had dominion and authority in the family line.

As the image of God, both men and women have dominion and authority over the earth. If not, I'd love to hear what Washer thinks "image" means. (My Latter-day Saint friends think it means God literally is and looks like a human being just like us, so I've been over this quite a bit.)
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Offline Lin

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Re: Paul Washer on Genesis 1
« Reply #14 on: August 06, 2009, 06:45:34 PM »
"As the image of God, both men and women have dominion and authority over the earth. If not, I'd love to hear what Washer thinks "image" means. (My Latter-day Saint friends think it means God literally is and looks like a human being just like us, so I've been over this quite a bit.)"

Yeah, I would like to hear what he thinks comprises the Image of God, too. Bruce Ware of SBTS teaches that woman are made in the 'indirect image of God...a derivative' as he describes it. As if the image of God comes from creation materials. Which means men get their image of God from dirt.  :nonod:

I would be interested in a discussion of 'Image of God' as it relates to this subject of male and female.

 


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