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I concur about the article being very well written!  And , I applaud the way that you can oppose the arguments without attacking those who hold them.  Thanks for that model. :thumbup:
2
Biblical Equality Discussion / Re: talking with comps
« Last post by MEteacher on Yesterday at 07:33:22 PM »
I really appreciate men like you and Don, Greg.  Men who are willing to change their minds about this, and then speak to others (who are more likely to take it seriously when persuaded by a man).

Ditto!!  As Stackhouse mentioned, men need to hear other men talking about it!  (I have a wonderful husband in that regard as well!)

Thanks to all of you men out there willing to be a voice for us women.

Greg, how did your time with the pastor go?
-me

Well ME, I didn't actually say he's a pastor, though I also didn't say he's not.   :)  But he's someone important, and I gave him a copy of Sarah Bessey's book Jesus Feminist as a door-opener. 

It's pretty easy to find an intellectual argument on either side of the fence, so I didn't think that would necessarily be so helpful. But the thing about Sarah's book is that it speaks at heart level.  I think while women might be able to relate to the things in that book as common experience, as a man I was incredibly moved because it says things of which I had no clue.

So- the door is open with him and we've met to talk about it three times now. One of the first things we had to settle is that I haven't slid down the slippery slope toward embracing gay marriage- as if one unavoidably led to the other. I think so much of what Stackhouse says in this article is true- my friend needs to see a role model of a man like him who has embraced egalitarianism.

So please keep us in prayer. (And especially him.) That God will do this work.

Oops....guess I just assumed he was a pastor!  Glad the door is open.  And has been said earlier, thanks for being willing to be a male voice and engage this person.  Now, we all can pray!

You also mentioned the slippery slope.  That I think is the most frustrating thing for me, and interestingly enough--though I am surrounded by egal people (the church where I grew up, my husband, para-church org, etc.) I just recently realised how much I have imbibed the 'fear' that I am indeed on a slippery slope, that somehow my egal leaning/understandings were 'less' biblical.  This is where my journey in the last 12 months has been focused--coming to an understanding that I truly do believe in the authority of Scripture and those that say otherwise are scare-mongering and that Satan himself is using it to make me less confident in the freedom I have in Christ.  --It's a big thing for me.  Although outwardly not a lot has changed in terms of my actions and/or what I say I believe, a lot has been going on internally and I believe God will use it to make me more confident that I have heard His voice and am acting for Him.

Because of where we live and not having a lot of local church options, we have ended up in this church where the pastor is a stong, patriarchal, comp--even to the point where women may not pray in the 'authoritative' service nor can they lead the worship/music.  I would not have stayed if we had another reasonable option.  However, I truly see God's hand in it and He is strengthening me and He is also using me to keep the issue in front of the pastor who is reading and (as he has told me)--he often thinks of me as he wrestles through these issues.  I keep praying!

Thanks again for your engagement!
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Thanks TL.

Here's a link to a link of the article, plus a link if anyone wants to subscribe to the free e-newsletter:
http://newlife.id.au/equality-and-gender-issues/gender-in-genesis-chapters-1-3/was-it-adams-responsibility-to-relay-gods-command-to-eve/

Still haven't worked out how to make these links neat on the EC forum, like Greg does.  Tips anyone?
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Biblical Equality Discussion / Re: talking with comps
« Last post by Dan on Yesterday at 08:44:45 AM »
Don is right. His point about infallibility is one of the hardest parts for me about being Catholic. One thing I like to point out is that there is a difference between Catholic (capital C) and catholic (small c). The Nicene Creed, which many Protestants accept, professes a belief in "one, holy, catholic, and apostolic church". This does not have to mean the Roman Catholic Church. It can also mean a less defined, universal body that (most or) all Christians belong to. As a Catholic, I believe that Rome has a special place. However, I do not like to stress this belief because I believe it has been divisive in church history. Therefore, although I believe in the Pope and the Magisterium (Catholic), I also believe it is important to seek unity among all believers (catholic). I hope for the day when all churches will recognize and enjoy their profound unity in Christ.
5
Biblical Equality Discussion / Re: talking with comps
« Last post by Don on Yesterday at 04:52:43 AM »
The Catholic model for church is very different than the protestant model.  I do not accept the idea of a Magisterium (infallible teaching authority), while Catholics believe that ecumenical church councils and popes speaking ex cathedra as such.  I had read books by Catholic authors which make a lot of sense overall, but sometimes one can tell that they have run into dogma and simply MUST come to the same conclusion as the RCC does.
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Biblical Equality Discussion / Re: talking with comps
« Last post by Greg on Yesterday at 04:32:30 AM »
I really appreciate men like you and Don, Greg.  Men who are willing to change their minds about this, and then speak to others (who are more likely to take it seriously when persuaded by a man).

Ditto!!  As Stackhouse mentioned, men need to hear other men talking about it!  (I have a wonderful husband in that regard as well!)

Thanks to all of you men out there willing to be a voice for us women.

Greg, how did your time with the pastor go?
-me

Well ME, I didn't actually say he's a pastor, though I also didn't say he's not.   :)  But he's someone important, and I gave him a copy of Sarah Bessey's book Jesus Feminist as a door-opener. 

It's pretty easy to find an intellectual argument on either side of the fence, so I didn't think that would necessarily be so helpful. But the thing about Sarah's book is that it speaks at heart level.  I think while women might be able to relate to the things in that book as common experience, as a man I was incredibly moved because it says things of which I had no clue.

So- the door is open with him and we've met to talk about it three times now. One of the first things we had to settle is that I haven't slid down the slippery slope toward embracing gay marriage- as if one unavoidably led to the other. I think so much of what Stackhouse says in this article is true- my friend needs to see a role model of a man like him who has embraced egalitarianism.

So please keep us in prayer. (And especially him.) That God will do this work.
7
Biblical Equality Discussion / Re: talking with comps
« Last post by KR Wordgazer on December 18, 2014, 08:03:10 PM »
Catholics err in placing too much emphasis on the maleness of Jesus, rather than on His humanity.  The implication of their teaching is that women aren't as fully human as men, because only male humans can represent Christ to the church.
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Biblical Equality Discussion / Re: talking with comps
« Last post by Dan on December 18, 2014, 07:17:33 PM »
The conversations have to be a bit different in the Catholic world. Women can't be ordained as priests in the Catholic Church, but we have a strong tradition of women's leadership.
9
Marriage, Family, and Relationships / Re: Book for Group Study?
« Last post by MEteacher on December 18, 2014, 07:25:59 AM »
Thanks I'll check those out.   About to read your article in Arise...
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Biblical Equality Discussion / Marg is featured on the Arise email newsletter for CBE
« Last post by TL on December 18, 2014, 06:12:55 AM »
Congratulations, Marg.  And good job on a clearly stated review of whether or not God spoke to the woman in the Garden of Eden.  :)
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